Re: 767-400 "a different type"?

Date:         06 Aug 98 11:26:07 
From:         Chris Dahler <>
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> Any comments? I knew the 767-400 was going to have an improved cockpit, but
> didn't realize the differences would be major enough that someone would
> considere it a different type. Do the cockpit differences mean pilots cannot
> be cross-rated with earlier 767s (and with 757s)? Conversely, can they be
> cross-rated with something else (747-400? 777?)

As far as I am aware, the aircraft will be the same type rating as the
757/767.  The problem for airlines will come mainly with the avionics, just
like the 737NG has the same type rating as the older 737's.  The -400 uses a
777-like cockpit, while the older 757/767 uses a mixture of EFIS and
round-dial instruments.  Southwest got around the problem of the cockpit
differences with the 737NG by having Boeing design the displays to mimic the
round-dial instruments.  I believe Boeing has made some statement or other to
the effect that this could just as easily be done with the 767-400.  This
would get around the training requirements of the FAA as far as the pilots go,
but dealing with the pilot unions would be a different matter.  So far,
Southwest is the only pilot union that has agreed with their company to fly
the 737NG in a common schedule and pay scale as the older 737's.  The other
airlines ordering the 737NG have had to negotiate higher pay scales and a
separate fleet type with their unions (meaning a pilot at Delta flying the
737-300 would not be concurrently scheduled to fly the 737-700).  This would
almost certainly be the case with the newer 767, since the aircraft has a
longer range and higher seat capacity, and these two factors have historically
been the primary considerations for unions negotiating pay scales and fleet
commonalities (the longer the range and the more seats, the higher the pay).

AA's comments on the 767-400 stem not from the aircraft having a different
type rating for pilots but from the fact that the engines and many other parts
are not interchangeable with the older 767 models, and the pilots at most, if
not all, airlines would require a higher pay scale and require that the
aircraft be *considered* to be a separate type from a scheduling standpoint
before they would agree to fly it.