Re: Q:747-400F vs. 747-200

Date:         05 Aug 97 03:15:47 
From:         kls@ohare.Chicago.NOSPAM.COM (Karl Swartz)
Organization: Chicago Software Works, Menlo Park, California
References:   1 2 3 4 5
Followups:    1
Next article
View raw article
  or MIME structure

>: >Doesn't the 400F also have the top deck removed aft of the door?

>: Its upper deck has the same, or very similar, exterior dimensions as
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: the original -100 and -200, but it's quite different structurally.

>Apologies for not being clear. Of course the hump is the same. What I
>meant with top deck in the above phrase, is the actual floor where the
>first class bar used to be, or seats.

You were clear enough.  I'm just not certain that the hump is indeed
the same.  There are significant structural differences and the newer
systems of the 747-400 mean the equipment in the hump behind the cabin
area is quite different than on "rope start" 747s, so while it does
appear that the -400F hump is the same as the original one, I wouldn't
bet much on even the exterior being exactly the same.  (Note the
different window arrangement, with two or three closely spaced windows,
though this may not really have any significance.

>SO my question was, does the 747-400 has an upper-deck cabin, or does the
>deck (there is that dual-meaning word again) terminate behind the

The upper deck is definitely shorter than that of the original config
(the 19' cabin of the "three-holers" -- Boeing later rearranged some
of the equipment in the aft section of the hump to allow a 25' cabin
with no external changes other than 8-10 windows per side instead of
just three placed in every other frame).  However, I believe there is
still enough of a cabin to allow several first class seats or other
crew-rest accomodations.

>: One exception is the two 747-100B(SR/SUD) aircraft, which appear to

>Do you mean the 747-300SR for ANA and JAL?

No.  JAL did acquire at least four 747-300SRs (ANA had none), but they
also had two 747-100B(SR/SUD) aircraft.  The 747-100B is a distinct
model, an improved version of the 747-100 with a choice of engines,
yet not quite a 747-200.  I've never quite figured out how it differs,
nor why Boeing bothered.  (It appeared circa 1977, long after the -200
had been introduced.  The Pratt-equipped versions use the same JT9D
versions as the normal 747-100.  MGTOW is higher than most original
747-100s, but I've seen 747-100s modified to the same weight as the

The two JAL planes are based on the 747-100B, and have the same type
of engines as JAL's other -100 and -100B models -- engines which are
not used on -200s or -300s.  I checked several references and all
agree that these two aircraft were built with the stretched upper
deck, not modified after delivery.

>That brings the number of special versions of the Jumbo solely for the
>Japanese internal market to three: the 747SR (or 747-100SR), the
>747-300SR (which you call 747-100B(SR/SUD)) and the 747-400D.

There are at least five distinct variations, not counting differences
between ANA and JAL orders for the same variation:

airline         model           qty  engines           MGTOW   seats
-------         -----           ---  -------           -----   -----
All Nippon      747SR-81         17  GE CF6-45A2      570,800  20+508
All Nippon      747-481(D)       12  GE CF6-80C2B1F   610,500  27+542
Japan Airlines  747SR-46          6  PW JT9D-7AW      570,000  16+512
Japan Airlines  747-146B(SR)      3  PW JT9D-7A       600,000  22+511
Japan Airlines  747-146B(SR/SUD)  2  PW JT9D-7A       600,000  25+538
Japan Airlines  747-346(SUD)      4  PW JT9D-7R4G2    600,000  25+538
Japan Airlines  747-446(D)        9  GE CF6-80C2B1F   600,000  24+544

There may have been more of some flavors built than what I list here,
but I used the highest figure I could substantiate.  Seating and MGTOW
are the most recent values I could find for each variation.

Karl Swartz	|Home
Moderator of sci.aeronautics.airliners -- Unix/network work pays the bills